Why Won't My Team Fire The Coach?
by John Beatty on Jan 27, 2011 1:00 PM EST
in Florida Panthers News & Analysis
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PrintNHL coaches find themselves without a job for a number of reasons. Sometimes they've lost the room. On occasion, the situation is so bad the team captain leads a players revolt. In other cases, the club decides that the team is not successful enough in the playoffs. Other times, the club is going in a different direction and the coach can't adapt to the new players or situation. Sometimes the team is too mediocre for too long. And sometimes the coach is a scapegoat for the general manager's ineptitude. While a lot of time contracts expire and are not renewed, there are plenty of examples, with a season on the line, of a general manager firing a coach mid-season in hopes of sparking his team and improving their performance immediately.
There have been more calls recently for the Panthers to do this. A lack of confidence late in games, a league-worst power play and some bad luck have combined for a lot of one-goal losses and the team headed for a league record ten seasons without a playoff appearance. While no one in the organization is interested in setting this record, owner Cliff Viner and general manager Dale Tallon have made no secret of their plans to throw out the band-aid, quick fix, tinkering approach to running this team and to instead put a long-term plan in place to win a championship. Tallon has said repeatedly that making the playoffs is not his goal. His goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and all decisions are made with that goal in mind.
With that in mind, I'll take a look at the options for the Panthers should they choose to make a change. When a coach is fired and replaced mid-season, there are generally three courses of action:
- 1. The general manager, who happens to be a former coach, replaces the coach until the end of the season.
- 2. Hiring an unemployed former NHL head coach.
- 3. Replacing the coach with another coach already employed by the organization.
The first option, though exercised several times in the last few years by Canadiens GM Bob Gainey and Devils GM Lou Lamoriello, is not one likely to be taken by the Panthers as GM Dale Tallon and Assistant GM Mike Santos are not former coaches.
The second option is a road often taken. If the Panthers move now, they have their pick of unemployed coaches. Unfortunately, the pickings this season are slim. Two seasons ago, this was a good option for teams, with experienced coaches Joel Quenneville, John Tortorella and Paul Maurice all available after being let go in the summer. This season, the former coaching pool is littered with short-time NHL head coaches like Rick Tocchet (Tampa Bay), Scott Gordon (New York Islanders) and John Anderson (Atlanta). The only coaches with more than a couple years of experience are former Stars/Flyers/Blue Jackets coach Ken Hitchcock and former Oilers coach Craig MacTavish.
If Dale Tallon is interested in hiring one of these coaches then he can act immediately. However, if he waits until the off-season, there are potentially a lot more people available. Teams will let contracts expire if they want to change direction. Minor league or assistant coaches who are ready to move up or on will not sign new contracts in hopes of finding a better job. And some good head coaches will find their contracts not renewed.
The third option is intriguing. While Rochester Americans head coach Chuck Weber doesn't seem like a prime candidate for a jump to the NHL, there has been speculation that new assistant coach Gord Murphy might be ready for a head coaching job. Indeed, much of the speculation has been that he was brought in as a potential replacement for DeBoer. This may be true. However, offense/power play coach Jim Hulton has been identified as part of the problem. It seems that he is as likely, if not more likely, to go as DeBoer. If DeBoer is gone, he will likely to be gone as well. If they're both relieved of their duties in favor of Murphy, the team is short two assistant coaches for the rest of the season.
Again, while it is possible that there are good coaches available now, the choices will be better at the end of the season. If the Panthers do choose to go in a new direction, the team is better served by taking the time to build the foundation for the long term than to once again make short term fixes in an attempt to make the playoffs. Clinging to the short-term view and making poor decisions in hopes of "making the playoffs this year" is a large part of what got the Panthers to the position they're in.
Something else to consider is that everyone on the hockey side of the organization is essentially auditioning for Tallon this year. While the realities of the trade deadline and free agency mean that some players won't make it the full year before he makes decisions on whether they will remain with the Panthers, the coaching staff is a different thing altogether. Firing staff during the season is a drastic move that's generally an attempt to save a season or distract from the general manager's mistakes. Even if Tallon was interested in shaking the team up, the Panthers are too far in to think they'll make the playoffs after a coaching change. There's usually an adjustment period where a lot of games are lost before teams turn a season around and the Panthers simply don't have enough of a cushion for this to work.
If it's too late to save this season with a coaching change, there's no benefit to making that change now. Both Pete DeBoer's and Jim Hulton's contracts expire after this season. If Tallon isn't happy with their performance, he can simply allow them to leave at the end of the season and have a chance at all of the available coaches this summer.
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I am fully in the side of getting rid of Hulton (duh). However, I think DeBoer is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. I don’t see how firing him will make anything better now or in the long term.
Houlton is a no brainer. I would be beyond shocked if he was not fired. DeBoer should have been let go a few weeks ago. However, now that he is still here I would think that he would remain for the rest of the year. I was that I could be more optimistic onDeBoer but these late game collapses are just to bad to ignore. I would hope that Talon brings in a guy that he feels can execute his blueprint to the best.
It will be interesting to see which players are traded at the deadline and then which are gone after the season.
Money, money, money
I think Tallon is handcuffed because of spending restrictions. Ownership likely will not sign off on a new coach while Deboer is on the books. That being said, I think Pete’s done enough to actually warrant a contract renewal with the team he’s been provided with, but I have a feeling he’s coaching now for an audition down the road.
The primary goal for this year (and probably the next few years) is to develop players. In which case having a coach who is himself developing at the NHL level is a terrible idea.
One thing I can’t stand about Deboer is that he keeps insisting that the team isn’t skilled enough. TRY TEACHING THEM!!!!!
Every team is skilled enough to string a few passes together, why aren’t we at least seeing that?
I think that regressing is more like it. The constant inability to hold a lead is totally unacceptable. Even the Ranger game is beyond bad and we won that one. How does DeBoer explain going into the 3rd period up 3-1 (knowing how many recent games were blown with a lead), give up the lead in less than 3 minutes and then only have one shot on goal. THat shot would not normally have even been a shot except for amazing luck. Plus to mention that the Rangers played 5 games in the last 7 nights or there about. DeBoer is lucky we somehow won that game or he might have been gone already.
I believe that the constant failures to hold a lead could be doing more harm to the younger players than to flat out suck.
by FL ELKs on Jan 27, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
give DeBoer a little more credit, he’s got one of the weakest top 8 forwards in the league and still manages to have them come out strong most games and usually score early. The motivation is there every night and i’m sure he plays a big part in that, meaning the players still want to be playing for the team he coaches. The defense plays relatively well and with all the injuries and AHL players, we manage to stay in the mix almost every single game. The breakdowns sure do suck and the horrible PP is, well , something no one is proud of but i gotta say i can’t blame the coach for this even though he’s the easiest scapegoat. It’s simply a matter of not having the star power, a consistent source of scoring the timely goals which has cost this team way too many points.
by eliran2 on Jan 27, 2011 4:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree about not having the star power. I also agree that we play hard most of every period of most every game. However, if we are to grow some confidence on our young players we cannot have all of these late collapses. Time outs are not really being used at the proper times. It is also poor that the team is not prepared to even start 3rd periods with a lead. Clearly DeBoer has to be held responsible in these areas as Hulton does on the power play as Murphy does with the penalty kill. I give Murphy an A, Hulton an F and DeBoer a C. I do not think a C is a good enough reason to keep a coach. I do not know who the correct coach should be but we need one with the experience to get us to the level that Talon is looking for. Is it DeBoer, I doubt it but you never know.
by FL ELKs on Jan 27, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree— He’s done a lot with what he’s had to work with, to some degree it’s amazing we’re not last in the league in offense. Yes we’ve got some good parts (Weiss, Booth, Wideman etc), but the whole is considerably lacking in comparison to the majority of the league.
by Craig Fischer on Jan 27, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
The Panthers are 5th in the east in even strength goal differential per game. (109-102)
The Panthers are 5th in the east in penalty kill efficiency.
The Panthers are 15th in the east in power play efficiency.
The Panthers are 12th in the league in even strength goal differential per game.
The Panthers are 7th in the league in penalty kill efficiency.
The Panthers are 30th in the league in power play efficiency.
SF/G 31.38
SA/G 32.22
SD/G -0.83
There is absolutely no reason to fire DeBoer – he’s doing a masterful job with the team and system. The power play is a real problem. Just a league average power play would mean 11 more goals for for this team and two more wins. The power play is either coaching (Hulton) or personnel. It’s much easier to fix a power play by bringing in a specialist or a better coach than it is to find a coach with a system that outscores at even strength and a superior penalty kill.
If Florida fires DeBoer, he’s not going to be out of work for long.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Jan 27, 2011 5:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You know Derek, when faced with the actual numbers I’m hard pressed to defend my stance that DeBoer should go. Despite my outrage at the “goal that should not be” incident against Atlanta a few weeks back I’m still really on the fence about DeBoer. I suppose DeBoer’s not really the problem, but at this point even my die-hard armor is starting to crack. I mean anything changing at this point has got to do some good, right? At least dump Hulton, right? FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE DO SOMETHING!!! Right?
Especially difficult for me to keep my sunny disposition after a game like last night’s…
I think Hulton has to go coming out of the break. I do think Tallon should extend DeBoer.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
The numbers don't lie
The Power play is a severe problem.
I am still a fan of Deboer except for him changing line combos up like changing underpants. He has, dare I say it, done a tremendous job in eking out the most from this team. Hell, the only reason we are even debating this is because we have seen what this team can do when it gets good bounces and how it plays hard almost every period. Coaching can’t make Rostislav Olesz a better scorer. Coaching can’t make David Booth into Alex Ovechkin and Stephen Weiss into Sidney Crosby.
Coaching can help a team develop a cohesive system which, as the stats show, works. But having no Power Play is the cog that is askew. And it is so far askew that it is detrimental to our perceptions.
How far different would our perceptions be if the power play actually worked at a league average and the team was sitting in 7th or 8th place with several games in hand? I will not be upset if Deboer is let go at the end of the year if only we can hire a coaching staff that can equal the even strength and PK stats and can drastically improve the power play.
Just my two cents.
by panthersfan27 on Jan 27, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
I will not be upset if Deboer is let go at the end of the year if only we can hire a coaching staff that can equal the even strength and PK stats and can drastically improve the power play.
Good luck finding that.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Coach
You’ll have to go a long way to find Ben Groulx…He’s back in Canada coaching juniors..Chuck Weber replaced him last off-season as the coach in Rochester.
Thanks, Cats. Corrected the error.
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
by Donny Rivette on Jan 27, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I still make that mistake myself.
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
by Donny Rivette on Jan 27, 2011 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thank you for the correction. Can you tell I haven’t kept up on what the Amerks are doing this season?
Florida Panthers: Because at least you can go to the beach after yet another bad loss.
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.
Sorry, but there’s no reason to keep DeBoer past this season. Firing him now would be pointless. His contract expires. Let him go. Honestly, can you ever, in your most optimistic drug induced high, see him standing behind the bench in a conference final? Every loss is chalked up to “well we tried hard and did what we could, they just scored more than us.” Has there been any improvement from when he was hired to today? Yea, there’s the “he’s doing OK with what he’s given” argument. Sorry, but do you really think the Columbuses, the Phoenixes, Nashvilles, Atlantas, Buffalos, Colorados, the Kings of the world are really that much ahead of us in talent? Everyone struggles. But watching those teams play and watching the Panthers play still seems to appear as though they’re playing a different game. I’ve never seen a team play along the boards as much as Florida does. There’s a slow, grinding, ugly quality to Florida that other teams resort to when needed, but not as plan A. Yea, once in awhile we muck our way to a few goals and get a W. When’s the last time we played a game where you were excited about the way we played for at least 45 of the 60 minutes? Even our “complete games” are boring. There just doesn’t seem to be much logic involved in our “system.” Players being benched. 2 goal leads being sat on even though we’ve blown what feels like dozens of them in the last month.
I didn’t like DeBoer as a hire when it happened because he had little to zero experience coaching professional quality, grown men. Nothing seems to have changed in the couple seasons he’s been here. Do you really think he’s the guy that’s going to be responsible for the change in culture we’ve been waiting a decade for?
Just to hit one point, apart from nashville (which every year amazes me with their terrible roster and win record) and maybe buffalo this season, i’d say our roster is still significantly weaker than that of the other teams in the league.
by eliran2 on Jan 27, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All u DeBoer bashers. My question to you is, who do you have in mind to replace? Considering what he has to work with, I’d say he’s done a commendable job. Sure he has his own set of gaffes but it seems to me he is improving all the time. Let Dale put in the right players. Give PDB a chance.
Or just fire him and worry after the fact who we can find better? Haste makes Waste!
CFS93
by chesterbardo on Jan 27, 2011 6:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So you are saying if we fire DeBoer in the offseason(let him go, whatever) that there wont be a suitable replacement? ha
Flattered, but having grown up watching dump-and-chase, my stylistic leanings would likely prompt sleepiness.
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
by Donny Rivette on Jan 28, 2011 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Another question is whether DeBoer will fire himself. As has been mentioned, his contract is up at the end of the season and he might be a hot commodity. Maybe he’d like to work for a franchise that is committed to winning. He’s already had three different GMs and he’s not through his third year yet. The checkbook doesn’t open often and Tallon has stated he wants to build through the draft, so maybe winning is 2-4 seasons away from right now. After a first year of heartbreak and a second year of failure, I think Tallon’s moves at the deadline may just be what helps Pete figure out if Florida is in his long term plans.
I think it would be a shame to lose him. He’s a teaching coach and seems to work wonders with some of the lemons on his roster.
How to build a championship team
1. Start with a Jr. Hockey league coach with no previous NHL experience……………
2. Follow a Blueprint of all other professional championship teams who hired a coach with no previous professional experience and became champions. (are there any)?
Sounds totally logical to me.
Yeah. Ready set go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and pray for a miracle!
My two cents: re-up DeBoer, lose Hulton. Love to get a guy like Dineen in his spot.
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
I’d love to get Dineen in Renney’s place in Edmonton.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Had to go that route, didn’t ya?
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
by Donny Rivette on Jan 27, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Give Mr. DeBoer a 1 year extension, right now we’ve got one of the worst teams on paper in this league, and I think Petey has done all he can. (Except maybe show a tiny bit of emotion when necessary)
That being said, the PP has to get better, of all of our one goal games this year, how many could have been won by a a PPG or two?
Gypsy! Give me your tears! If you will not give them to me, I will take them from you!
by Chris S Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 11:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It’s likely he’d get a three-year offer elsewhere (looking at you, Ottawa).
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus. Hit me up at Twitter and our Facebook FanPage
by Donny Rivette on Jan 27, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Still waiting for just 1 name all you PDB bashers…I want to know who you think can do better? Guys like Dan Bylsma and Bruce Boudreau came into this league the same as DeBoer..success in the lower ranks with NO NHL experience whatsoever. What makes these 2 coaches so much more successful?? You think maybe a quality GM who not only Drafts but ALSO acquires quality? I mean are these two guys really hockey geniuses? Or perhaps Crosby and Ovechkin have something to do with it…Malkin and Backstrom…Letang and Green. Anyone Disagree?? The Blackhawks were completely horrible…then a man named Dale Tallon drafted studs like Toews in ‘06 and Kane in ’07. He also plucked gems like Byfuglien in the 8th round and Hjalmarsson in the fourth. He brought in via trade charachter guys like Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg and Ben Eager…
I mean, am I wrong here?? Or maybe we should just pour all the credit on Quenneville who spent 9 years with the Blues and 3 more with the Avs with no great success. Think the Pens and Caps have been optimistically carrying players on their roster like Brett McLean? Victor Oreskovich?? Joraj Kolnik?? even Pelltonen and Koistonen?? These are names that could not hold a NHL spot anywhere but here!
Now with Tallon, don’t you think DeBoer knows exactly what he has got here?? Why in the world would he want to leave?? For Ottawa? Can you be serious?
Take a look at the trend here before you just go ahead and blame everything on PDB http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=531254
CFS93
I’d like to add if I can that when using the Chicago Blackhawks as an example let’s remember that while Tallon made some great draft choices and shrewd trades, he hired an experienced coach to take his team to the top. Joel Quenneville. This after firing a good friend of his Denis Savard. Tallon is not afraid to make that move again.
A coach that has won many games in the NHL and is respected not only by the rookies, but the vets is something to take a look at
A one year deal for DeBoer does nothing for him other than make him a lame duck.
Like Karl said earlier, I don’t see Pete behind this bench when we are in a conference final.
I am all for changes if and when necessary. And I am as frustrated as any and all of you over our seemingly endless ineptitude. I just don’t believe in hasteful changes only to end up worse off…I agree this is longer than a 1 year project…so I expect for certain he will be signed longer…unless of course there is a better option! Can someone please mention a candidate? Someone more experienced who can get more out of what we got?? Surely you must have one name in mind, yes?? Just one???
Right now I’d say Pete DeBoer is a Coach who’s really overachieving with the few performers he’s got. Sure, fire him when he’s shown he can’t get it done with the likes of Crosby and Malkin. Bylsma replaced Therrien when there was no more excuse…HE had the horses…also the health and some luck(a few bounces).
CFS93
The Bylsma and Boudreau comparisons to DeBoer aren’t quite fair. I would like to see those situations reversed and see what happens. Washington and Pittsburgh have some extremely talented players, of which both Blysma and Boudreau have benefited from.
Look at Nashville for a better example. The roster they have might be slightly better than ours, but Barry Trotz year in and year out gets the most out of his players and they are making the playoffs. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Bylsma, Boudreau and Trotz were coaching in the AHL before coming to the NHL.. DeBoer was in juniors before he arrived here.
Names? Bob Hartley, Kirk Muller, Kevin Dineen, Ron Francis, Paul MacLean (Red Wings Asst). Just to name a few.
No to Bob Hartley.
Nashville has drafted much better for years or have you forgotten that? Nashville’s team is far more talented overall than the Panthers. Sure, the Panthers have some similarly or more talented players like Frolik, Weiss, and Kulikov, but that Nashville team is far better overall.
The Trotz comparison doesn’t hold water for me when the team has combined his tremendous coaching skills with incredibly consistent and solid drafting.
The Panthers have been anything but that for over 10 years now.
by panthersfan27 on Jan 28, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Bylsma & Boudreau, you echoed my point exactly! Those guys have/had the Horses!
Trotz is a nice coach but is he really a better example?
1998-99 Predators NHL 82 28 47 7 0 0.384 Out of Playoffs
1999-00 Predators NHL 82 28 40 7 7 0.427 Out of Playoffs
2000-01 Predators NHL 82 34 36 9 3 0.488 Out of Playoffs
2001-02 Predators NHL 82 28 41 13 0 0.421 Out of Playoffs
2002-03 Predators NHL 82 27 35 13 7 0.451 Out of Playoffs
2003-04 Predators NHL 82 38 29 11 4 0.555 Lost in round 1
2005-06 Predators NHL 82 49 25 0 8 0.646 Lost in round 1
2006-07 Predators NHL 82 51 23 0 8 0.671 Lost in round 1
2007-08 Predators NHL 82 41 32 0 9 0.555 Lost in round 1
2008-09 Predators NHL 82 40 34 0 8 0.537 Out of Playoffs
2009-10 Predators NHL 82 47 29 0 6 0.610 Lost in round 1
CFS93
Excellently written article, and thanks for stirring the hornet’s nest (mean sincerely). The commentary—for or against—is so much more intelligent here than on the HF Panther board. Congrats to all.
That said, I’m going to side with the “can’t get a silk purse from a sow’s ear” guys. PDB’s done a great job of squeezing lemonade out of the bitterest lemons. The truth is (and this is hard for me to say as I’m one of those eternal optimists come October) some of the players aren’t good enough. That’s not PDB’s fault.
Nor is it Tallon’s. We’re headed in the right direction (as opposed to, say, the train wreck that is the Toronto Maple Leafs). Horton didn’t want to be here—he’s gone. Good move. We’ve seen the development of Matthias, Dadanov, Ellerby, Garrison. After many, many years this organization’s going in the proper direction.
PDB, again, is not the problem. (And, again, thanks for a great read!)
by BelgieBoy on Jan 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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