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Panthers trade Booth, Reinprecht to Vancouver for Samuelsson, Sturm

Former - and future - Panther Mikael Samuelsson


In the biggest trade of this early season, the Florida Panthers have traded David Booth and Steven Reinprecht to the Vancouver Canucks in return for Mikael Samuelsson and Marco Sturm along with a 3rd round draft pick in 2013. This was a difficult pill to swallow for Panthers fans, David Booth has always been a fan favorite, character guy and explosive player while in Florida, and it is unbelievably difficult to see him go. That said, I can't say it's a bad move for Dale Tallon; Mikael Samuelsson really turned a corner on his game after joining Vancouver a few years ago, and Marco Sturm may finally find some stability in Florida. The two forwards will be UFAs at the end of the season, but I doubt they will be difficult to resign if the Cats get their act together this season. Reinprecht was AHL bound and the 3rd rounder are both non-factors, so the trade seems pretty fair. Given Samuelsson's skill, he should easily replace Booth's numbers this season, perhaps without a -20 rating.

Let this trade sink in for a while, as we're all unhappy to see Booth go (I always pictured Booth as the face of the franchise), but we could be looking at an improvement for the roster. This trade levels up to the Michael Frolik trade, both had great scoring ability but had stretches where they were simply invisible, a characteristic that the new Panthers cant afford to harbor, especially through tough stretches early in the season. More from Nucks Misconduct here.


GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG PCT
2011 - Mikael Samuelsson 6 1 2 3 -1 6 1 0 0 13
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG PCT
2011 - Marco Sturm 6 0 0 0 -5 2 0 0 0 3
Poll
Who wins the trade?
Panthers
50 votes
Canucks
143 votes
David Booth (Cup contender baby!)
153 votes

346 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 148 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I'm just so sad

Let me repeat that- I’m just so sad. David Booth meant more to me than just a Panthers player. I don’t think I’ve ever become more attached to any celebrity more than him. It’s going to be hard to let him go.

by Jimmy Palmer on Oct 22, 2011 8:32 PM EDT reply actions  

just wanted to say i’m quite excited about the canucks new aquisition. you’ll love samuelsson when he’s on his game, and curse vehemently at your television when he’s not… heading down to sunrise in less than two weeks to visit family, so hopefully i’ll catch your game against the flyers…

by kiyotok on Oct 22, 2011 9:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks Ki. Look us up when you’re in town :)

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

most def will! i was surprised how cheap tickets were in florida! 62 bucks 2nd row from the ice against philly. can’t even get them that cheap for nosebleeders here in vancouver! :o

by kiyotok on Oct 23, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

We’ll send you to the right part of the parking lot for some tailgating as well :) Meet some of the hardcores.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 23, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what happens when you miss the playoffs 10 years in a row. While not as expensive as anywhere in Canada, they still weren’t that cheap 5 years ago when I moved here.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

here we go again!

Fk tallon and the rest of management! here we go again trading away good players for nothing good in return!! I’m fkn fed up of this team and their bull! they give booth 6 games to prove himself wtf is that!? ya lets get sammy and sturm 2 old douche bags who suck and will take roster spots away from players who actually have heart. Wow im fed up of Tallon already hes a fkn idiot

by Nick Lepore on Oct 22, 2011 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, glad we can overlook the free agent signings and 5+ TOP prospects Tallon has accounted for, plus a steal in Santorelli just because of one trade. Shall we jump ship people?

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah trading for Versteeg and Campbell and drafting Gudbranson and Huberdeau was a TERRIBLE move.. Tallon is an idiot… Really need a sarcasm tag

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Way to make your first post an educated one!!!

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

ya we should jump ship cuz when someone can trade booth for sammy and sturm, it means theyre not in their right mind…our GM is on crack

by Nick Lepore on Oct 22, 2011 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

So since you know whats best I guess I can expect to see you as Tallon’s replacement when he’s fired for doing such a horrible thing..
We gain more goals and point in Sturm and Samuelsson than booth would have ever produced for us this season.. the only thing I would have changed was the 3rd rounder.. might have made it a 5th or 6th..

Btw just a reminder to everyone else..

He had 3 goals and 9 points in 37 games with the Panthers in 2003-04, then spent four seasons with Detroit and was a member of the Wings’ 2008 Stanley Cup champions.

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was Vancouver’s pick (Chris Higgins trade) that the Panthers flipped back to them. Probably as a favor for taking Reinprecht off their hands.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

if what you guys are saying is that Florida comes out on top in this trade, then ill just stop wasting my time here

by Nick Lepore on Oct 22, 2011 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

nobody knows who comes out where until the players arrive at their new teams and play a few games.. Booth was too much of a defensive liability I believe he was -30 last season… thats not acceptable and his play this season hasnt been anywhere up to par at all.. as of right now it’s even but it could easily go either way…

You (and every other fan) need to look past booth being a fan favorite and look at whats good for the team overall..

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think either team really “won” much in this trade. Booth struggled last year defensively, and was doing so again this year. His goal scoring totals will be missed, as will his presence in the locker room (he was a clown and a great guy), but he was off to a rough start and wasn’t providing the type of offense his contract dictated. He has three years left at $4.25M a year, and considering the team needs to re-sign Kulikov after this year and still be active in next season’s free agency market, it made sense to make the deal to drop his contract and get rid of the dead weight in Reinprecht’s contract.

Will Sturm and Samuelsson become all-stars in Florida? Hell no, but they’ll be serviceable players, and if either play extremely well, management has the option of re-signing one or both (which I doubt).

Sad to see Booth go, but this trade makes some sense from a salary standpoint for Florida.

by Ryan Meier on Oct 22, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Samuelsson and Sturm will replace Booths goal total easily.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think they will. I think Sturm will probably struggle here, but Sammy will mesh well. I hope I’m wrong though!

by Ryan Meier on Oct 22, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

even if sturm struggles all that means is its a completely even trade.. unless of course they throw booth on the top line and henrik and daniel feed him all day everyday

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it’s worth, Kesler was 79th overall in assists last year

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does Ovie pass? no.. but he still gets assists.. why? Because he shoots alot and people pick up rebounds.. same as kesler

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, we’ll find out around February

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Next season. That’s Huberdeau’s roster spot Tallon just opened up. :)

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it isn’t working by then, the deadline will sort it out

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kesler

Had a role change last year. The year before, he was the passer and Raymond and Samuelsson were the goal scorers. He can be either a good passer or shooter, whatever the line needs.

I am the writer behind 3:10 To Overtime, a Canucks-centered hockey blog that focuses on things from all corners of the hockey world. Always the most interesting pics, videos, and articles on the web.

by Toma (310 To Overtime) on Oct 24, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

What does that have to do with anything? His numbers will go up with VAN, doesnt mean they would go up with FLA.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right you are, Chris.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not just Kulikov but also Versteeg needs to be resigned at the end of this year. He currently makes approximately $3 million and with the way he’s playing so far this season a new contract for him could get expensive.

Hockey is a business, only we fans love it as a game.

by JDMorris on Oct 23, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heres My Take...

we got f***ked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! excuse my french.

by Devin N on Oct 22, 2011 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

“They’re two useful, NHL top-notch people that can play,” Tallon said of Sturm and Samuelsson, both of whom are on the final year of their contracts. "They’re solid defensively and offensively.

“Samuelsson won a Cup in Detroit and is coming off back-to-back 50-point seasons. He’s a real useful player. He can play the point on the power play and has size and a big shot that we sorely need. Sturm gives us a player that can kill penalties. He’s scored 20 or more goals seven times in his career, and it just gives us more options and more depth in the organization.”

Translation… he wants someone who can skate backwards.. aka play defensive hockey as well as scoring

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:36 PM EDT reply actions  

He’s scored 20 or more goals seven times in his career, and it just gives us more options and more depth in the organization.

you all need to get off this Booth kick, as I said on my Twitter account, sure he’s a fan favorite and thats why people are angry.. but he was overrated and has been since the year he scored 31.. the ONLY reason he might return to those numbers is because he could get ice time with the Sedins or Kesler.. something he wont have here in Florida.

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

glad you can agree on something..

but I wouldnt go calling the new guys garbage until you see what they can do..

I dont like trading youth for older guys but this is still an offensive boost for us as well

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s to hate about Marco Sturm? He’s never been promised as a savior; just a solid piece of the right puzzle. Hopefully we’re it.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sturm is a more offensive Dvorak… nobody had a problem with Dvo..

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly have no problem with a “more offensive” DVo.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I usually don’t like it either but we got two guys who can help towards a playoff push this year. Their contracts will expire and then in 2012 Huberdeau will most likely fill Booth’s old role and Booth’s 4.25 million can be used to make the team even better going forward.

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

They’re solid defensively

Thats the whole point of this move.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, Kris Versteeg is your new David Booth. Lost one fan favorite, gain a new (and possibly better) one

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 10:40 PM EDT reply actions  

versteeg has better hands and isnt as much of a liability in our own zone. plus hell drop the gloves to stick up for a teammate

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Undeniable ^

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

we couldve got anyone instead of sturm

by Nick Lepore on Oct 22, 2011 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Are you implying Tallon didn’t take the best available deal?

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Compared to the Frolik deal, we did just fine.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/2A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

sturm has been pretty awful lately, no doubt about it

by eliran2 on Oct 23, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

My Take on This

Look if you are a Panther fan, as I am, you hate to see Booth go. However, the way I look at it is beyond being a Panther fan. Booth had a great year just before he got a fat contract. He then got leveled and suffered a huge concussion. He was not the same player when he came back even though he played the full year last year. Correct me if I am worng but didn’t he lead the league in minus last year? He did not exactly get off to a flying start this year. It is hard for me to justify his contract based on how he is currently playing.

I hate to see him go but think it was the right move.

We need to trust Talon to build this franchise. We have many promising young players in the minors just itching to make the team.

Just my 2 cents.

by FL ELKs on Oct 22, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

And trust him many of us will. As you stated, still sad to see Booth take the fall, but whatever is necessary…

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am hoping the economics of the team played part in this trade. His contract is just to fat.

by FL ELKs on Oct 22, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

FLA took on more contract in the deal. But if it fills the necessary holes, so what?

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes but those contracts expire at the end of this year. Where as Booth’s would have many years left.

by FL ELKs on Oct 22, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Booth wasn’t contributing to the level management felt was worthy of his contract. Is it worth 4 more years of that uncertainty? Tallon, Inc. decided it wasn’t.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was actually an even trade roughly with the 2 players for booth.. but we also dropped an additional 2mil with getting rid of reinprecht

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the ignorant are blasting it. Hopefully Booth does well in Vancouver.

by FL ELKs on Oct 22, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

im blasting this deal and i don’t see myself as an ignorant panther fan. Adding a 3rd rounder in there really is the salt on the wound. There’s a reason the vancouver GM won best GM last year, guy knows how to bargain

by eliran2 on Oct 23, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tons of people also dont have stanley cup rings like tallon does..

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 22, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might you provide us with a link for rebuttal?

Devin, you’re treading close to “troll” status here.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 22, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haters Gonna Hate..

I liked Booth but he has never been on his game since his head injury. I see this trade as a roster dump. Sturm and Sam both have 1yr left so they will get dumped at the end of the season if it does not work out. Makes room for Huby and Howden :)

Shooooooooot!!!!!!!!

by jmslavick on Oct 22, 2011 11:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

on a positive note

If sturm and sammuelson do terrible we have over $4 milliion to spend on a free agent next year. There are a lot of good free agents potentially.

by panthersfr3ak on Oct 22, 2011 11:45 PM EDT reply actions  

We have more than 4M to spend….remember we are at the cap floor

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kulikov won’t command the kind of money that they freed up, unless Tallon really shows he’s a flippin idiot.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 22, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

To add to that, if they give him a contract nearly as similar to what Booth was earning, it could end up being as bad as Olesz’s. He’s too young still for a contract of that nature, and needs to prove a lot more with his game yet.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 22, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Santos is the contract guy, from what everyone says and he’s been a bit stingier than Tallon so far. Especially in re-signing RFAs. I don’t see them overpaying Kuli when they’ve got Petrovic and Robak. It’s not like the Panthers are hurting for defensemen right now.

I think they hang out around the cap floor for a couple of years. Look at the Matthias deal. JM would have given the guy $2 million and a one-way.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

he wont be more than 4M anyways…

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

should start in first year or two lower than 3M

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

My take....

Bad trade…. to an extent

Reasoning. Firstly, Sturm has been abysmal in Vancouver. He is not the player he once was in the past. I’m afraid that injuries have taken their toll on him, and he’s just not the guy he once was. I’ve been a fan of Sturm for a long time, goin back to his days in San Jose. He was always one of my later round fantasy picks, as he always put up decent numbers from the left side, especially when there was a lack of depth on the left side in fantasy hockey. But his play the past two seasons just hasn’t been up to the level it once was. Yeah, he was injured most of last season, but even his last season in Boston, he was figured to spend most of his time on the top line, and ended up spending more on the third line.

As for Samuelsson, I remember people bagging on him when Dudley acquired him in the swap of picks that ended up being Horton taken 3rd overall. He never got the chance to perform here in Florida with all the turmoil behind the bench and front office. When he went to Detroit and became a pivotal piece of their Cup winning team, many here in Florida still doubted him. He’s since moved on to Vancouver and produced without playing on a line with the Sedins. But age is catching up on him. I like him, but I don’t like that he’s 35 in December. I don’t buy the “veteran experience” line on a reasoning to acquire him.

As for Booth. I’ve thought the Panthers have needed to take the first good trade offer for him, since he got leveled with two concussions. Damaged goods. No player comes back and plays the same after gettin their bell rocked that badly, unless they’re a complete idiot (see Lindros). He needed to go, as he wasn’t going to play with the same reckless abandon that made him a fan favorite in the past.

With the talent the Panthers currently have after all the signings, I’d rather have seen Booth traded for picks and a minor leaguer or two, and call up a guy like Dandy to fill his spot. This trade kinda admits to Upshall not living up to expectations. But no one was gonna take on four years in a swap of under performing free agent signings when giving up an expiring contract.. Scottie has time to turn it around with this trade.

But this trade smells of a win NOW attitude. That is NOT the mind frame this organization needs. Dudley had the right idea when he came in. Incremental improvements, which he expected to be about 10 points a year. Tallon learned a lot from Dudley. Don’t fool yourself into thinking Tallon was solely responsible for Chicago winning. The man walked into the job surrounded by a LOT of front office talent. he needs to not make the same mistake of the past six years, and try a “Win It Now” approach.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 22, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions  

oh what up Mr0…how is Theo doing?

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i heard he is doing pretty well

by Colt1235 on Oct 22, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colt, firstly, that’s called trolling. Looking for an arguement. Secondly, you’re not seriously gonna judge a signing off five games? Panthers may have won with him in net, but that’s more cause of outscoring the opponent, not stopping the puck, when you have 7 goal game and two other 3 goal games. Only reason his GAA is lower than .300 is because of that shutout.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 22, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im just wondering man, thats all.

by Colt1235 on Oct 23, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s injured.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/3A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 23, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks Chris!!! Go Markstrom!

by Colt1235 on Oct 23, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

But this trade smells of a win NOW attitude. That is NOT the mind frame this organization needs.

Agreed on the first portion, jury is out on the second, imo.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 23, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tallon did say he didnt want to be picking 3rd (or higher) again

by Rob PKane McMahon on Oct 23, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s more a make the playoffs NOW as opposed to a win NOW attitude. I don’t think anyone running the Panthers is looking at winning the Cup this year. Booth was simply not working out and this move does not hurt the Panthers long term and could help out towards the short term goal of breaking the playoff jinx. They dumped Booth’s salary and finally got rid of Reinprecht. Sammy and Sturm can go at the end of the season no strings attached if they don’t merit being extended.

I know most outsiders and even some Panther fans look at this team as being a bunch of old overpaid vets with no future but look a little closer, most of the signings are in their prime years and of the ones who are not only Jovanovski is carrying a burdensome contract. Despite all the free agent activity the Panthers still have plenty of cap space going forward and as these veteran contracts either expire or the player is no longer needed they will be traded or cut loose and replaced by the likes of Huberdeau, Howden, Shore etc. There is definitely a plan here and once again the Panthers will have the room to be major players in Free Agency next year if they choose to be.

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

After seven games played, with still a lot of unknowns, its too soon to be in a “Make the playoffs now” mode, which is still a win now mode. Winning will bring fans, even if the team comes up just short this season, but making the playoffs won’t necessarily benefit this team, aside from two extra games worth of money in their pockets.

The ONLY way I can excuse this trade is this….

Samuelsson has been injured. Sturm has been underperforming. Both are given a chance to turn their seasons around and then traded for picks and prospects around the deadline. But I see no benefit in having them playing for the Panthers otherwise, honestly.

A bunch of old, overpaid vets? Not I.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 23, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not a huge fan of this trade either but it makes sense on some level. I disagree with you though. I think it’s important for the Panthers to make the playoffs this season. It’s time to remove the stink from this organization. Booth was not making an impact. Maybe Sammy will provide the offense Booth wasn’t maybe not. Either way these are two rental players who could help the team achieve this season’s goal which is the post season. If it doesn’t work both players are gone in the offseason and so is Booth hefty contract.

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

A playoff appearance of four and done, will do more damage than not making the playoffs in the eyes of a casual fan. Not the diehards, the casual fans. The ones who don’t visit websites such as this, or know every little aspect of the franchise. The Panthers are much more in need of winning a round or two, if they want to increase their fanbase. Making the playoffs and losing a series 4-0 or even 5-1 is goin to look like the Panthers are still inept even after all the money that was spent. This should be a throw away season, to see how the pieces acquired work out. If they make the playoffs, good for them, but moves should not be made with the idea of needing to make the playoffs. At this point, another losing season is NOT going to hurt this franchise.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 23, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But this trade smells of a win NOW attitude.

Really? I’m looking at it as two things: a wake up call, and flexibility for next year. Someone was going to get cut off the top 6 in favor of Huberdeau. It ended up being Booth. That addresses present and future. Not sure why it has to be either/or.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is someone predestined to be cut out of the top six next season for a kid who still needs to bulk up and prove himself again? That person shouldn’t be dealt until the kid has proven he’s ready, and there are countless things that can happen in the next year to change the situation. Go ask Olesz how gettin rocked by Phanuef changed his play after the World Juniors. No one should be cut in favor of Huberdeau or any other kid, until the kid beats the others out of the job. Tallon talked about competing for spots on the roster here, but it seems many fans still want to just hand over roster spots to kids before they might be ready. And we’re already paying a third liner more than he might deserve based on his career, so bumpin a guy like Upshall, Booth, or whoever might get beaten out by a kid down to the third line isn’t that big of a deal where depth is a concern, and we’re not strapped for cap space. A move like that might actually have lit a fire under Booth in that situation.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 24, 2011 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

So, if he’s not ready and Dadonov or Kennedy isn’t good enough next year to take the spot and Samuelsson works out then you try to get him for another year. If you’ve decided someone has to go and he’s got a NTC kicking in, you trade him now and you trade him when his value is high.

Booth wasn’t getting the job done and another team was interested in his services, so a deal was made. Even ignoring the Huberdeau situation, Booth was in danger of losing his place in the top 6 to Santorelli anyway. So why not make the move? It still doesn’t scream “win NOW” to me. But then, I think his performance issues may have been more than just a slump and that gives a different perspective on it. Same as with Frolik. If you think a scoring drought is a slump, then you have a different perspective on a player’s value to the team than if you think it’s another issue, like focus or attitude or conditioning or difficulties with the systems or not fitting in with the new makeup of a radically different or changed team. (FTR, my opinion is that it’s likely the last of these.)

When Booth was playing on a line with Weiss and Horton and there wasn’t a lot of offensive ability on the team besides the ability to play a game so poor it would offend those watching (rim shot please), Booth was set up to excel. When DeBoer was double shifting him, he had more opportunity to score. With the new makeup of the team and the new coaching staff, he isn’t getting those opportunities anymore. In Vancouver, he’s going to get the opportunity to play with someone like Ryan Kesler and/or Chris Higgins, which should play to his strengths more than playing with Kopecky and Upshall. Booth has really only looked good this year when he was playing on a line with Tim Kennedy.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 24, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I’ve said before, Booth needed to be traded since he took the hit from Richards. Damaged goods. And Booth was never really anything more than a more talented version of Marcus Nilson. Gritty player playing on the top line, that probably should have been on the second line at best. I’m not against the trade. I’m against the return.

Samuelsson is still having complications due to a sports hernia that had surgery during the offseason. Sturm is playing on two rebuilt knees and not performing anywhere close to his second line ability of past years. AND we threw in the pick we got for Higgins, meaning we gave them a big piece of their team for free last year. This only makes sense from a financial stand point, being a win now attitude in hopes of drawing more fans or cutting costs cause they don’t have the money.

I hope Sturm gets his game back, but I don’t see it happening. I hope Samuelsson recovers quickly and plays like the guy he’s been while with the Wings and Nucks. They’ll be great trade bait. But I don’t see them helping this team in any fashion in the long run, this season or future ones.

by MrOmnipotent on Oct 24, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sturm has been abysmal in Vancouver in the same way that Booth had been abysmal for the Panthers IMO. Their numbers are nearly identical, the difference being that Booth is expected to be much, much better than Sturm. And even if Sturm doesn’t score, he’ll have a roll to play on your PK.

Seems like many people believe that Vancouver won this trade, but I don’t think so. Vancouver loses a known quality on their team by trading Samuelsson. He’s a guy who can score and play some defense (he’s marginally better than the Sedins). Vancouver becomes weaker defensively on their 2nd line, which I can live with as a Hawks fan. The Panthers don’t lose much offense in the trade and actually improve on defense. Seems like a perfect move IMO.

Regarding Tallon, he was awesome outside the two big contractual mistakes he made. It was his drafting skills and bringing in Soupy that built the championship team. I would disagree with you that our front office was stacked with talent at that time.

by aeroplane on Oct 27, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

What’s really unfortunate is that Booth wasn’t sent to to the Northeast…imagine the terror in JM’s eyes knowing he’d have to face him six times per year

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 23, 2011 12:37 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

if he remains (JM). After tonight’s loss, mobs are forming outside my window as we speak

by eliran2 on Oct 23, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Superb ^

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 23, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leafs fan here

 I don’t get to watch Booth every game like you guys but I think this was a bad trade. I don’t see how trading for two 33+ players at the end of their careers for a youngish guy who’s scored 20 twice and 30 once plus throwing in a pick is justifiable on any level. You are supposed to be rebuilding not hogging geezers. I can’t understand the thought pattern here. Can someone explain it to me?

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Oct 23, 2011 1:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Not only do we get two competent forwards that can more than make up for Booths production (or lack there of). We also aren’t tied into his inflated contract and it leaves one extra roster spot open to Huberdeau, Howden, Dadanov, etc. on next years roster as well.

Booth was a fan favorite, but he is a defensive liability and an injury risk with his 2 concussions. Not something you want tied into another 4 years of a contract at 4.5 mil

by milhouse on Oct 23, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

he was a -30 last year, and already a -6 this year. Reminds me of Wideman

by Colt1235 on Oct 23, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hawks fan here

I don’t understand your comment. Seems that a Canadian (you are Canadian, right?) would look beyond offensive numbers to judge a trade.

Booth wasn’t a two-way player. Seems that Vancouver’s weakness to me is their forwards lack of defensive liability (outside of Kesler) and they added to that weakness. Florida loses no offense in this trade and instantly gets better on defense.

by aeroplane on Oct 27, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

You all will love Samuelsson, even if his mind wanders from time to time. Sturm was nothing for us but six games isn’t a solid sample size either. hopefully the trade works for both teams and all the players excel…just Booth moreso ;)

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

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"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.

by Yankee Canuck on Oct 23, 2011 2:53 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

I’m sorry if this has been mentioned before in the thread but I couldn’t read through all the lack of punctuation and poor grammar this late at night:

Dale “Dave to his friends” Tallon saw Booth through 88 games with a -36 and a looming cap hit of 4.25M on the books. Had he not made this trade early Tallon would have had another Olez (sorry Chris) on his hands. We all liked to see Booth on the ice but this is what GMs do. Tallon evaluated the situation and made his move. Had Booth become a a -15or -20 for the season by January there would be no interested trading partners for the duration of his contract.

I guess I’m still a little numb from seeing Frolik go last season but this is the face of change. We can’t, as fans, ask for change and a winning team while simultaneously crying foul when an under preforming fan favorite is handed a boarding pass to an airport in some other NHL city. If only Upshall commanded the interest of other teams…

Look on the bright side kids, there’s no way the Panthers will be as bad as the Dolphins this year!

by Spencer-IV on Oct 23, 2011 4:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Tallon saw Booth through 88 games with a -36 and a looming cap hit of 4.25M

This is another huge part of it, Tallon wasnt seeing the David Booth we were familiar with—the one that scored 30 goals. He saw a 20 goal scorer with defensive deficiencies, making him expendable.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/3A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 23, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

not shocked by this

Booth’s numbers have been in a downward trajectory while his minus rating was climbing at an alarming rate, not a good thing at all when you are a holdover player from a prior regime making a hefty salary.

I like Booth as a player but he’s paid to score goals and he wasn’t doing it. Someone posted the other day that Booth was a “natural” scorer which I don’t agree with. Booth was a guy who scored through hard work and by driving the net. Maybe the Panthers brass thought he was not playing with the same abandon he used to in his better years due to the concussion issue. I think this trade will benefit both parties. Vancouver is obviously a very talented team which will help Booth get his game back on track and I would not be surprised to see Samuelsson come up with numbers similar to Booth’s output from last year.

Tallon wants to keep putting his stamp on the team. These are two guys who are here to help out this year and then as we go forward our prospects will be filling more and more of these roster spots. Vets are slowly going to fall by the wayside as this team moves towards becoming a real contender. You guys don’t think Jovo is really going to be here four years now? This also gives the Panthers even more cap flexibility next offseason in case they want to sign a true top line scoring forward which is badly needed imo.

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 7:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Emotional Hit :-(

Sitting at the game and getting texts from my buddies in Dallas saying how sorry they felt for me losing Booth, then twitter reports.. I, like GSP, will admit I had tears. It was not easy for me to enjoy the first period of play knowing Tallon traded away David Booth. As a fan who hasn’t picked a jersey with a player name in 5 years because of the air of uncertainty, this hurt me. After making it past the trade deadline and July 1 I thought for sure he was a part of The Tallon/Santos plan. After a good strong drink and my buddies reminding me that Tallon said perform or be ready to move I settled into the game. I wish Booth nothing but success in his hockey career, he will be missed by me.
  ((Weaver 0g/3A!! Islander killer))

I hereby predict Captain Mike Weaver #43 will score 6G 20A -RCR 0G1A update!
Be impeccable with your word, don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions, always do your best...

by RPC on Oct 23, 2011 9:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I read the initial Booth posts and then made a lap of the upper bowl, first dropping off chocolates for CBG (who needed them) and then picking up a Smithwicks (because I needed one). Ghirardelli dark and Irish red ale – the comfort food of champions! ;-)

by OldDave on Oct 23, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are the best, Dave. That did make me feel a little better. Thank you :)

by CLG_74 on Oct 23, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

My sentiments exactly. I wish him nothing but the best, in Vancouver. It is hard to accept that he may never be the same player he was, prior to the concussion. I hope he proves us wrong & gets his groove back.

As I’ve said to quite a few people, I am sad of the trade, not mad at it. I have faith in Tallon & the decisions he has made. I am all for the betterment of the team, even if it means losing a fan favorite.

by CLG_74 on Oct 23, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was listening to the NHL summary show while driving home last night and heard about the trade for the first time. It was also the first time I heard that much praise of David Booth without a mention of any downsides.

Being objective, Booth never regained that touch he had prior to the injury, “Shooting at the crest” has been his weakness for the past 2 seasons and he still hasn’t gotten over it. I’m hoping the change of scenery helps him regain his prior form.

As for what we received in turn, they are rentals, holding space for Panthers prospects to fill in those gaps at the beginning of next season. Or, to be resigned if they perform well. I’m not a fan of the aging of the Cats, and it seems to be a significant departure from “The Blueprint” (which has now disappeared from the Panther’s presentations totally if you haven’t noticed).

Seeing Red since 1994.

by coasterg on Oct 23, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

The aging of the Cats is a temporary thing. Like you said these players and a few others are holding spots until the cream of the Panthers crop of prospects is ready. The “blueprint” in my mind is to have a team capable of making the playoffs until the kids are ready to take over and lead the team to greater glory. The Panthers will look significantly different and younger in the next 2 or 3 seasons when Huberdeau, Howden, Shore, Bjugstad and others make the jump to the NHL.

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The blueprint is gone, replaced by red. The whole blueprint marketing was to prepare the fan base for what happened at the trade deadline.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Excellent, JB

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 24, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good luck to Sammy and Sturm, from a Canucks fan.

Gonna miss having Sammy on the team, he’s a good guy and a good player. Hopefully they’ll work out for you!

Rogers Arena - the Sugarbowl!

by Big Blue Whale on Oct 23, 2011 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks! I hope Booth finds his groove again. If he does, you guys will like him. No one works harder than that guy.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Getting to the right places, not unlike Versteeg

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/3A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 23, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mark this one on your calendar ...

Monday, Jan 9, 2012 – The Canucks @ The Big Billboard.

by OldDave on Oct 23, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

I will be there with bells on!!! :)

by CLG_74 on Oct 23, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

YEP me too!

I hereby predict Captain Mike Weaver #43 will score 6G 20A -RCR 0G3A 10/22
Be impeccable with your word, don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions, always do your best...

by RPC on Oct 24, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Watching NHL on the Fly last night, that new idiot guy (Jamie McLennan?) was sold on Booth because he had ‘sandpaper’ to his game and based that observation on his 10 second square-off with Mike Richards.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/3A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 23, 2011 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah

I noticed that too. Dumb comment

by Todd Little on Oct 23, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Noodles!

Yeah, amateur-hour.

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Oct 23, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That guy annoyed the hell out of me

by Colt1235 on Oct 23, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something about the shape of his head makes me want to fix it with my fist.

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 1G/3A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Oct 23, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget his elf ears. He’s like some sort of gender-less gelfling…

Hockey is a business, only we fans love it as a game.

by JDMorris on Oct 23, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing

I have read with fascination the pro and cons of David Booth from you guys ( (thank you!), and as I digest it, a few things. Agree or disagree if you will.

Even those here that point out his negatives are all resigned to “hes a good player”. Because he is. So, if you go by the old adage in the NHL about “He who gets the Best Player in a trade shall be judged to win said trade”..then the Canucks won this deal.

If you look at it as a Cats fan, or even just dispassionately and with an eye to the financial aspects, than the Panthers did just fine.

One thing I did find interesting, the positive hope that Sammy can replace Booth’s scoring. Well, yes and no. He can, but he might not. And this is no offense to the players on the Cats, or the systems, or any fans of course. But not a one of them are identical Twin back to back Art Ross winners. They just are not. The reason everyone on the team gets all happy and smily ( go to NM and scroll down to the story on new guy Dale Weise, he asked the coach “you sure” when he got tapped for the always dangerous after PK shift with the Twins because Burrows just killed a penalty ) when AV puts them there.

That was Sammy’s place when Burr was not going. Others got it, but even when he struggled, Sammy was out there with those two as the second option. Thats because he is a gifted, gifted shooter. But thats also because the hallmark of any good Sedinery is the pass into open space. Sammy got many of those with the Twins, in additional to the Bonus Twin Time on the PP, where the chances of piling up points from the point really pile up!

So, he get some. That shot alone ensures that. But he is slowing down, and the adductor thing has to be troubling. Thats where speed comes from when you skate.

Sturmy Weathers? He’ll get some opportunistic goals, and even in his struggles here, he always seemed to know where the right place was to go. Just had trouble getting there on his bionic knees. Perhaps in the slightly slower East, I don’t know. We do have one of the collectively fastest teams in the NHL out here too.

We are just jacked out here. Me? I am pretty happy. From seeing Booth in highlights and when the Panthers game was on NHL Network, the one thing I noticed about his game, even post concussion, is he knows where to go and will use the power game to get there. Not afraid of the corners.

That shot. It looks like it could be as good as Sammy’s. He is definitely faster. That and getting a guy that was Kesler’s teammate as teens, giving them a chance to reignite that…pretty positive.

But enjoy Sammy in the room and on interviews, in addition to on the ice. Sturm too. Both will be playing to be on that team or another in the NHL next year, so no slackers! If you needed cool vets to tell it like it is, I know for certain you got that in Sammy.

Sturm you have to decide for yourself. ;-)

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Ghandi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Oct 23, 2011 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

A good read. Thank you

by CLG_74 on Oct 23, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

thx

I can see the benefits of both sides. The difference might be in the quality of chances Sammy gets there.

It should be noted, he is a “sneaky” shooter too. Will sometimes hold it that extra second, or shoot from places guys don’t expect with a lot of accuracy. He can be maddening sometimes, and he will turn it over in your end by trying a pass only he seems to see…but he is one of those guys goalies look for when they enter the zone to “keep an eye on that guy, he has a shot”.

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Ghandi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Oct 23, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m hoping Santorelli can get Sammy the puck. Yeah, he’s not the Sedins, but given Booth’s struggles with the new system, it’s entirely possible that Sammy will get more goals than Booth would have by virtue of the fact that Booth wasn’t playing up to his potential.

Also, the Canucks win the trade on best player, but you have to give something up to get something. The team is deep enough that Tallon could afford to sacrifice Booth to make a point.

"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Oct 23, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about the message Tallon was sending???

I read all these comments and am not suprised by most of them. The emotional ones regarding losing Boothie and the objective ones about the salary flexibility it gives us but I am surprised no one mentioned the psychological impact of Dallon not accepting lackluster play the message it sent to the rest of the team that you play hard every night or we’ll put someone in your place that will. The Panthers looked terrible the last two games before Sat. night. There was no energy, no emotion. It looked like they were overcome by their 7 goal, power play extravaganza and thought they didn’t have to out work the opponents anymore to win. Tallon lit a fire under them with this trade. You could see the difference Saturday night. They played probably their most complete game of the season. The concern I had Saturday night was they played so well and yet were only ahead one goal until the last minute. As upset as most of the fans were at the game by the end of the night we were all going crazy and excited with the spark that they seemed to have. I loved Boothie as the type of player and person he was but I don’t care who gets traded if it makes the team play better and we finally start to compete for the playoffs. I don’t know Strum and Sammy but I felt that Booth looked lost with the new team and scheme and he admitted he didn’t feel the chemistry with his new line as he missed playing with Weiss. Weather it would have come or not I think at best he was less of a factor with the new players we have then when he was one of our only legit scoring options before this year. Withe the concussions and the long term contract at such a high price I think the move made sense especially with Santorelli coming back. The bigger question I have is what happens when Clem comes back. Markstrom looks very ready to take charge now and I think it would be a waste to send him back down.

HCM

by hcm on Oct 24, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

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