A few words about dissent, disagreement and who's a real fan
Litter Box Cats posted a controversial opinion piece last week that drew a lot of ire from the community. The piece itself was highly critical of Dale Tallon's moves in free agency and included a statement in the opening paragraph that many took as a dig at all of the fans who approved of them. The response got a bit ugly with both detractors and defenders of the piece getting nasty with each other. Apart from the public comments, there was some behind-the-scenes discussion as well. I would like to address criticisms from both sides on the piece itself, the fan reaction to it and to my own objections to its tone. I will not further address the scene in the comments except to say that there are community guidelines and commenting guidelines linked on the left sidebar of the main page and everyone is expected to follow them.
The remainder of this post is my own opinion, with which everyone is of course free to disagree in the comments as long as it remains respectful.
I will start by saying that this is an inclusive community and everyone is entitled to express their opinion, whether it be the staff or the remainder of the community. If you don't agree with the point of view expressed in a piece, please hop into the comments and let us know and let us know why you don't agree. If your comment is over 100 words or so, consider writing it up as a Fanpost. This extends to the opinions in the post in question. The author of the post is entitled to his opinion and there is nothing wrong with his making a post stating that opinion.
That said, I don't agree with the piece in question. But, I also don't have a problem with it except for the tone. The tone is what I think pushed people over the edge into expressing anger in the comments. In a discussion, another SB Nation writer thought that this characterisation was wrong and since it was an opinion piece it didn't matter anyway. And perhaps an objective observer would agree.
However, if you're paying attention to the community, you will know that in general people in it react badly to this sort of thing. The Panthers fanbase is constantly ridiculed by Canadian fans, the Canadian media, and both fans and media in the Northeastern US. We read it on the internet in articles and again in the comments. We see it when fans from other teams troll our boards and blogs. We watch it on Hockey Central on Versus and we see it on the various regional sports networks (ok, mostly NESN). We're told that hockey doesn't belong in the "south" or the "sunbelt" or "Florida" or "Miami," take your pick. We're lambasted for following the team when they've been terrible for ten years, we're lambasted for not showing up to the games when the team has been terrible for ten years, even though we all knew it took a lot less time for people to stop showing up to see the Penguins and Sabres when they were terrible.
I was at HSBC Center during the lean years and it wasn't any better a sight than than Panthers home games the last couple of seasons. It was pretty empty for a marquee game against the Red Wings, with fewer than the announced attendance, with a large portion of the fans in the building being Wings fans from Windsor. Pittsburgh was at the bottom of the league in attendance before they drafted Sidney Crosby and Chicago was down there for a while as well. And yet we're the ones who are continually slagged for poor attendance because we're "too far south" for hockey.
People here are tired of it and they don't want to see what they consider a negative or attack article on a Panthers site, in their space, as it were. Looked at objectively, the statement "to put it bluntly the 2011 off-season can best be described as, the same (expletive), different pile--and we're applauding," may not be taken to be inflammatory and the writer, a few commenters and said SBNation writer didn't think it was. However, a large segment of our community takes that as a personal attack and the same garbage they regularly see from the northern media. It's what they come to our site to escape.
What that means is not that we can't, don't or won't print articles that criticize management. I've certainly done that on many occasions. But what it does mean is that some care should be taken when those kinds of articles are posted to make the point in a way that doesn't immediately set people off. And if you're going to start out with a sentence like the above in your introduction, it doesn't matter what points you make in the article, you've already made it personal.
I realize that ultimately this is a difference of opinion, but the site is about the community and catering to their needs. Note that I didn't say pander. But sensitive topics need to be dealt with in a sensitive manner. People are on edge because they feel constantly attacked, both for living in Florida in the first place and for being Panthers fans. I know there's a feeling in the SBN community that hockey fans in Florida are a bit thin-skinned but we live in a place where housing is unaffordable, food is expensive, everything is a far drive away and is overrun with tourists 9 months of the year (12 in Orlando). And then a bunch of people in Canada and other parts of the US want to begrudge us our NHL hockey. That doesn't sit well and leads to some serious tribalism.
I was asked if I believe in feeding this culture, and I don't. But I do believe in wording things carefully to elicit an intellectual rather than an emotional response if I feel the topic at hand is one that might upset people. I think that a playoff or two will help most of us stop caring what other people say, but right now the group as a whole is a bit sensitive and I think it's good to avoid any trolling, as unintentional as some of it may be.
As for the victim culture itself to which I alluded, I don't particularly care for it or the tribalism. As far as I'm concerned we're all fans of the greatest sport on the planet and we should be able to at least get along, but I'm constantly disappointed by fans of all teams.
I'll say one more thing and then leave it be. I'm not the kind of person that thinks that people who don't go to the games or live where the team is to be any less of a fan. Hell, I was a Flyers fan who grew up in New York. I was born in Rangers territory and grew up in Sabres territory, but was a Flyers fan. We all have our reasons for following a team, and it's not always geography. However, if you haven't sat in the BankAtlantic Center for one of the heartbreaking New Year's Eve "home" games against the Canadiens, then you can not truly understand where Panthers fans are coming from and why, as a group, we're defensive and thin-skinned. However, this does not mean that someone who doesn't hold season tickets or live in South Florida or who disagrees with you about the team's direction is any less of a fan.
A few comments were made in the thread that "only in Florida" would a negative article be posted about the home team on a site about them. I can say from experience that the poster has probably not spent much time around Flyers fans. I've been watching Flyers fans rip management a new one on the internet since about 2001. I was in the building when the Panthers shellacked the Flyers 5-0 in Philly right before Christmas last year. All I heard around me the whole game was a bunch of guys going on about how the team must have had their Christmas party a day early.
I also know a lot of Panthers fans who criticized the entire Jacques Martin administration and even Alan Cohen's entire ownership of the team. I am, in fact, one of those people. But for all the people who agreed with me that it was a huge mistake not to trade Jay Bouwmeester, there were some who thought they were right not to. And similarly, there are Panthers fans who are less than enamored with Tallon's moves this summer. I say, that's why they play the games. We'll find out when the season starts. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. Right now a lot of people in South Florida are really excited about the Panthers for the first time in a long time. There are also a lot of people who want the team to fail. The challenge is for us to not confuse those people with ones who want the team to succeed but don't think management is making the right choices.
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AMEN!!!!
Very well written. There is nothing wrong with not liking what the team/management does, but there is a right & wrong way to go about it. You did us right.
Thank you, for writing this.
I just want to say this about being a ‘fan’…
I live in Colorado so naturally the team I grew up watching was the Avalanche. Since finding the Panthers, I’ll admit I’ve grown apart from my hometown team. I’m sure by now all of you know that #GiftShopGreg #ShermanIsAnIdiot.
I’m very critical of the Avalanche management, but only because I hate to see the team I loved (and still hold a special place in my heart for) destroyed by one bad move after another. But I still consider myself a fan even though I constantly rip on them and paint Armageddon scenes for their future.
Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to be outraged when you think (keywords: you think
Crap...from where I left off...
) the team is going in the wrong direction. There are right ways and wrong ways to do it, though.
by Chris S Roberts on Jul 9, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
"Can't we all just get along!?"
oh and this is OT but..
Rocco Grimaldi
Leaving for Florida tomorrow morning for camp. Looking forward to a good week
anyone else excited?
by Rob PKane McMahon on Jul 9, 2011 9:59 PM EDT reply actions
Quality piece JB...
As a fan who spent his college years cruising Madison, WI with my Panther jersey at UW games, I know how it feels.
I actually enjoyed Craig’s piece, because it was a thought-provoker. It’s what journalism is supposed to be. I know a lot of people didn’t agree with it but that’s the point that everyone missed. He has every right to question those moves, because I know I question them too. While I don’t think they’ll all turn negative, that chance exists and it’s significant. If we get a team that collapses, when will people start calling for Tallon’s head? Quick – and it’ll take years to undo those contracts.
But enough of this conjecture, let’s drop a freakin’ puck already.
Wow. I don’t check the site in a couple days and apparently things go to hell, lol.
First off, I read the article in question and didn’t really find much infuriating about it, but I guess maybe I’m just numb to it all by now. Reading ESPN.com the other day (which for NHL articles, a mistake, I know) and the article I read went on and on about how Florida was overpaying players who aren’t that great, and Dale Tallon got to the cap all the wrong way, and how Florida is now ruined. On the sidebar was a link to a relevant article, which did nothing but praise Tallon and his ambition. So obviously, until there’s something on the ice to judge, it’s all speculation.
And as stated, it’s an opinion piece, and one I can understand. While I would disagree that the players we brought in this season are similar to the Stumpel’s and Belfour’s of seasons passed, it’s an argument I get. The part I didn’t get, and that kind of annoyed me, was people jumping up and down yelling about you can’t be a fan and be negative. That it’s the northern media’s job to bash us, and the Panther Fan should be a collective, defending the franchise from all who would slander her name. I haven’t lived in south Florida since 2003, so I’ve been watching every game since on NHL GameCenter. It’s not cheap. But I’m a fan. So if I think picking up Jovanovski was a mistake because it takes Gudbranson’s spot, and he’s stuck in juniors again, gets pissed off being hte #3 overall and still not being given a chance, and goes elsewhere? If I vent my frustration, do I need to cancel my GameCenter subscription? Of course not.
Not really sure where I was going with this, other than the fact that it’s an opinion piece that obviously did it’s job because it evoked a reaction. And while I didn’t get through all 175+ comments, that’s why I love these blogs. Living in Orlando (and now moving to Iowa), I can’t head to the bar and talk Panther shop. I come here. Are there articles written or people here I disagree with? Of course. Such is the beauty of the interweb. Anyone can come on and post an opinion, which anyone who feels the need to react to. And doing so in a way that might put into question the strategy of the franchise makes you no less of a fan.
by kSelvig on Jul 9, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Recommended. You rec a comment or article that you really agree with/think is really funny/appreciate/think others should read etc.
You can rec something by clicking the action button then hitting the star. 2 recs turn a comment green, 2 recs “recommends” a fanpost. Also known as ‘greening it’
BTW guys, we should totally get the rec’s going, “+1” isn’t the same! I see tons of unrec’d funny stuff on this site that isn’t green!
by Chris S Roberts on Jul 9, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Speaking of 1.. you guys should check out Google its a new social networking site thats currently under beta testing.. its actually quite nice just lacking support as far as members because its by invite only.. look into it maybe you guys know someone who has it.. could be a new way to get the word about the cats out.
one of their features is actually a 1 button, huh go figure.. 1/button/" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/+1/button/
by Rob PKane McMahon on Jul 9, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
well that came out weird.. lets try that again
by Rob PKane McMahon on Jul 9, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly OT
I have some Google+ invites left, not many though. If any one is interested shoot me a message and I’ll try to get you an invite.
Don’t know why the plus sign didnt show up for me.. eh oh well
by Rob PKane McMahon on Jul 10, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, that someone shouldn’t be discounted as a fan, because they are negative. Lord knows, the Panthers have given them much reason to be that way.
BUT, the article was titled & had an intro as matter of fact & then the body was of opinion. That is going to be a HUGE turn off, to most people that are not open minded.
Johnny hit the nail on the head, stating kid gloves should be worn, when writing articles that are full of criticism….otherwise your point that you are trying to make, will be lost.
Good opinion pieces always evoke reaction. It has been taught in journalism classes probably since the beginning. There is nothing wrong with divergent opinion as long as it is not written in a condescending manner and is well researched and thought provoking.
One of the reasons I enjoy hanging in the Nation is because of the quality of writing and the fact that you can express an opinion on most any event that happens in sport on any given day – with me, mostly hockey – but…the key phrase is “express an opinion”. It’s one of the things that make these sites work well and keep people coming back and commenting.
I enjoy watching the whole world of pro hockey function, and there are a number of teams and organizations I enjoy watching and learning about, of course, the Panthers are one of them. I {and most, but not all} people would not be here if I didn’t like the Panthers.
No one should be calling for anybody’s heads yet. None of us are running the team – we may agree and disagree on what is going on – but we can’t play the games on the ice. As Asia once said – “Only Time Will Tell.” Just like with Angelo Esposito – but that is another post…
Very good post, John. It’s why I keep coming back.
It's always a great day or night for hockey - no matter the time or place!
by spiker97 on Jul 9, 2011 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Simply Outstanding
John that was a very eloquently written piece! I loved reading it! I have actually been working on a similar article for my blog on the Panthers’ website. Basically the article will discuss Panthers fans’ uniquely horrible position of being fans of a losing team AND having our faces rubbed in it nightly by the opposing team’s fans. It also discusses how the Tallon stamp on the franchise is slowly beginning to create a pride and excitement no felt here in a very long time…
Your article was perfectly written, from beginning to end!
by VanMurph on Jul 9, 2011 11:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Stupid iPhone autocorrect...
“not” felt here in a very long time…
by VanMurph on Jul 9, 2011 11:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Team
The Icarus piece was really negative. As well I am a part of this Suffer Club so I feel Craig’s sentiment. I have felt the optimism as he explained each season before but now I know it is different. I mean to even consider wanting Bryan Allen at a discount over Jovocop to me is just plain silly. Did he and some of the others get more than their market value? Perhaps. But we have to spend it anyway and why not on consummate professionals; guys who bring it every night. I also disagree on the feeling we need to rush in our prospects too soon; Guds included. One thing is for certain. Dale Tallon is NOT Jaques Martin or Mike Keenen. He is building us a real team. One that will have us singing the O-A song heading for the BAC exit on New Years Eve.
The Wiki definition says it all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team
CFS93
by chesterbardo on Jul 10, 2011 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Fla love
I love this team and it’s hockey fan base here. Well prove to all the nucks we deserve two teams in Florida! Go cats! Beezer!!!
by CatNipp on Jul 10, 2011 8:54 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well said John. I believe there should always be room to post for and against decisions made with the Panther organization from an intellectual perspective. Personally I would rather read that here than on any other site as its coming from some people who love the sport of hockey and would enjoy seeing the Panthers successful.
I’ve learned more about the business of hockey, draftings, trades, rules, AHL, CHL, etc from following yourself and everyone that contributes here. Its only made me that much more a hardcore fan. Thanks for educating, entertaining and eyebrow raising write ups!!
Be impeccable with your word, don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions, always do your best...
im late to the party but here’s my two cents: i like a lot of what you had to say in this piece, however, you have to call a spade a spade. i am all for tact, but how anyone can look at the alan cohen years and not see it as an unmitigated disaster is beyond me (occasionally beating the caps or lightning is not a winning season). i can pretty easily understand how a fan, fed up with 10 years of being a crap team and taking the abuse over it, would look at this offseason and see the same old soup reheated. until we get some wins under our belts and threaten for playoffs this segment of fans arent going to see the glass as half full, they will see the glass empty, smashed against the wall, and the pieces scattered on the floor no matter how gently the bad news is broken. i am happy to state that i am not one of these fans, but it doesnt make them any less fans than the ra ra set.
Now this is what it's about
Quality dialog on both sides.
Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus
until we win everything will be questioned
Good article John though I didn’t realize people living in Florida were criticized for living here. I’ve only gotten envy for living here especially from my northern friends in the winter. I haven’t been a hockey or panthers fan for that long, just the last 3 years or so but once my wife and I went to one home game we were hooked and now it’s our biggest passion. Not only don’t we ever miss any games (thanks to DVR) we just bought our first season tickets and this is the first hockey site I joined and so the excitement of this coming season and the general feeling of camaraderie on this site has me even more excited for this season.
I felt the article went overboard and was not factual in some areas and like some of the posts that defended it was based on many years of frustration which is understandable but the last thing we wanted to hear at the time. I expressed this in my post but I also pointed out that in America we have the right of free speech and so everyone is entitled to their opinion. Like most others I have been a diehard fan of teams in other sports of which cities I never even visited, more-the-less lived in but I knew there were no more passionate fans of those teams than me so I agree with your definition of a real fan regardless of where you live though many others don’t. As far as I’m concerned the more fans we have nationwide the better!
I can also relate to some of the more negative posts since they have been going through the losing frustration with the Panthers longer than me. I spent my entire life as a diehard SF Giants fan and it took almost 50 years of frustration until they finally broke through last year. I can also tell you that the fans blogs in SF up to this year hated Brian Sabean and blamed him and ownership for all the Giants ills but how fast opinions change after a World Series win. We all want the same thing and hopefully we’ll have it soon.
Until then everything management does will be questioned and circumspect but knowing Cliff Viner I can tell you that no one wants to see this team win more than him. He was been a fan and an investor since day one. He will do everything in his power to try to bring a winner here and while that may not be enough it’s about all you can ask for from an owner. Let’s hope it works and again – great site and thanks for having this for us particularly during this time of hockey famine
HCM
You should be in my position, working in a place that has to try to attract people to move here because there aren’t enough qualified people locally. It seems that for every person willing to move down here (like myself), there are 10 who don’t want to live in Florida, period.
"We don't need the designated goon. Those fights aren't even fun to watch." -Mike Milbury
Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.
by John Beatty on Jul 13, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions


















