Thursday Caterwaul: Panthers GameDay Open Forum

by Donny Rivette on Feb 9, 2012 10:26 AM EST in LBC Caterwauls: '11-12

Shadowing old pal Mike Richards, Florida's Stephen Weiss has yet to record a single point against Los Angeles through seven career games

Surrendering first-period goals (often of the early variety) has been an alarming trend for Florida in recent weeks - like you weren't painfully aware - the overall effect of which has blossomed into a very ugly statistic: 46 first-period goals-against in 52 games ranks the Panthers fifth-worst in the National Hockey League, behind Tampa Bay (58), Ottawa (57), Columbus/Nashville (52), and Philadelphia (47).

That the Cats have managed only 37 of their own in opening frames is a miserable number individually - good for 21st overall - but alas the Kings are in town: L.A. has scored a league-worst 24.

Predictably, forward Kris Versteeg leads Florida with 6 first-period markers, followed by defenseman Jason Garrison's 5. Of Tomas Fleischmann's 17 total goals, a scant 2 have found the back of the opposition's net in the first twenty minutes.

The Eastern Front

Rank	Team	GP	W	L	OT	PTS	GF	GA	Home	Away	L/10	Streak
1	NY Rangers	51	33	13	5	71	141	103	16-6-2	17-7-3	6-3-1	Lost 1
2	Boston	52	33	17	2	68	180	117	17-9-2	16-8-0	4-5-1	Lost 1
3	Washington	53	28	21	4	60	149	149	19-7-1	9-14-3	4-4-2	Won 1
4	Philadelphia	53	30	16	7	67	173	157	12-8-5	18-8-2	4-3-3	OT 1
5	New Jersey	53	31	19	3	65	150	148	15-9-2	16-10-1	7-2-1	Won 5
6	Pittsburgh	54	30	19	5	65	163	141	15-7-2	15-12-3	7-2-1	OT 1
7	Toronto	54	28	20	6	62	168	157	16-8-4	12-12-2	6-3-1	Lost 1
8	Ottawa	56	27	22	7	61	162	174	14-11-2	13-11-5	2-7-1	Lost 2

9	Florida	52	24	17	11	59	131	149	13-5-7	11-12-4	3-4-3	Lost 2
10	Winnipeg	55	25	24	6	56	131	151	16-8-2	9-16-4	4-5-1	Won 1
11	NY Islanders	52	22	22	8	52	126	150	11-11-5	11-11-3	6-2-2	Won 1
12	Buffalo	53	23	24	6	52	132	154	12-9-6	11-15-0	4-5-1	Won 2
13	Tampa Bay	52	23	24	5	51	148	176	15-8-2	8-16-3	6-3-1	Lost 1
14	Montreal	54	21	24	9	51	140	147	11-11-7	10-13-2	5-4-1	Won 2
15	Carolina	55	20	25	10	50	139	168	14-12-3	6-13-7	5-2-3	OT 1

Why last night really didn't matter:

BUF over BOS, 6-0; suddenly that Caps shutout on Tuesday doesn't appear quite so insulting

Panthers Playoff Update:

Odds down 0.3 to 67% (thank you Sabres) per Sports Club Stats

Why tonight is a HUGE Deal in SoFla, beyond the obvious:

WPG at WSH, 7 p.m.; fourth game of season series, Caps lead 2-1. Last game at D.C. went overtime - the nightmare scenario
TOR at PHI, 7; past seven: 6-1 Flyers
NSH at OTW, 7:30; Sens' Michalek: 11-game goal drought

Next up for the Cats:

Hosting the Kings this evening; LBC Game Thread powers up at 7. Check in with our buds at Jewels From The Crown and MayorsManor for the Los Angeles perspective on tonight's matchup.

Did you know

L.A. right wing Justin Williams: 15 points (8G), plus-7, 1 GWG in 21 career games at BankAtlantic Center

Wednesday’s Organizational Transactions:

G Brian Foster returned to San Antonio

Wednesday’s NHL Waiver Wire

Jed Ortmeyer (MIN) to waivers

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Comments

@OnFrozenPond

How long has it been since #FlaPanthers beat #LAKings at home? Bill Lindsay scored 29 seconds in and Roberto Luongo made 31 saves in 2001

by studyaid on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST reply actions

Jesus, that was a long time ago…

119 days until Prometheus

by Todd Little on Feb 9, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions

They’ve only played three games in Sunrise since then

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Donny Rivette on Feb 9, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions

details, details

by studyaid on Feb 9, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions

need that new alignment, damn you NHLPA!

119 days until Prometheus

by Todd Little on Feb 9, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

If the Panthers win, they retake third and would tie Ottawa (and still have three games in hand). Toronto is also catchable but the Panthers need to start winning and they need to start tonight.

I’ve already heard one talking head say that in the East, if a team can’t win their division they want the #6 spot.

by jimmyh71 on Feb 9, 2012 10:59 AM EST reply actions

Well, yeah – they’d either get the Caps or the Cats, depending …

by OldDave on Feb 9, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, I’d rather have the Panthers or this year’s Caps than the Bruins, Rangers, Flyers or Penguins.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions

Can you believe I just said that about the Rangers? Man, has that team come a long way in the last few years.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions

. . . and Clemmer is in net again, because being outscored 10-3 isn’t enough.

by studyaid on Feb 9, 2012 10:59 AM EST reply actions

in two games

by studyaid on Feb 9, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

I’m not thrilled about that. If Theo’s coming back, I’d rather it was against the Kings than the Devils. The NJ game is a “four-point” game.

by jimmyh71 on Feb 9, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions

As the “million dollar man” once said—everyone has a price. Four goalies floating around out there: Anders Lindback, Cory Schneider, Jonathen Bernier, and Ben Bishop. With Markstrom’s iffy knees, it would be a shrewd investment.

by bearcat30 on Feb 9, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions

Bernier is better than quick and Im not 100% sure if LA realizes it yet but if they do that drives the price up A LOT.

Schneider? The Nucks may look to move Luongo before him, but if they do like said above the price will be high and if Markstroms knees are no issue we’d end up losing another goalie to free agency like Anderson.

by Rob PKane McMahon on Feb 9, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions

There is no way that the Nucks can move Luongo and his contract. Why not package Markstom in a deal for either Schneider or Bernier then? This helps us as we get an NHL ready goalie and helps the other team by prolonging their own goalie decision.

by FL ELKs on Feb 9, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

btw – Quick looks like the real deal to me. He will be the Kings starter for years to come.

by FL ELKs on Feb 9, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

There was a lot of question on whether he’d even keep the starting spot this season.. but the kings shaky slow start is what caused them to lean more on him.

And Markstrom is not getting traded anywhere. There’s no way in hell that’s happening especially when he hasn’t even been seen in the NHL as a consistant starter.

by Rob PKane McMahon on Feb 9, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions

Main reason he hasn’t been seen in the NHL as a consistent starter are his knees. Two knee surgeries in two years in America is a bad track record, and historically enough reason to trade him. if the Panthers can get Schneider or one of Quick/Bernier in a trade forMarkstrom and just a little something extra goin the other way, you can bet money that he’d be traded.

by MrOmnipotent on Feb 9, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions

Or we should just keep Markstrom because he might just end up better than both of them. Those two are older and have been given back up jobs, Markstrom will be there next season

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

Talent doesn’t mean jack if you can’t play. With two knee injuries, its a major cause for alarm. Goalies need their backs and their knees to stay healthy more than just about any other part of the body.

by MrOmnipotent on Feb 9, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions

Sure, but two knee injuries does not a DiPietro make. Let him work it out, if it continues to be a problem, thats a whole new ball game

I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season. FLASH COUNT: 17G/21A
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions

If you have the opportunity to get an even swap talent-wise in a goalie, but one slightly more experienced and without the injury history, you consider the price. A swap for Schneider, if he’s resigned to a decent contract, wouldn’t be a bad thing, if the price isn’t too high. I’m not saying give up on Markstrom. I’m just saying, you need to explore options and not bank on the kid as the sole option.

by MrOmnipotent on Feb 9, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

I’m sure Tallon is, as we know he doesnt have any favorites other than Skille

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions

Schneider isn’t going anywhere any time soon. He’ll leave as a free agent, eventually. But they’re not trading him. He’s insurance.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions

Quick is pretty much the best goalie in the NHL right now, Bernier is good, but not even close to pushing for the starting job this season

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions

Bishop will become a group 6 UFA unless he plays at least 30 minutes in 17 games this season, so if anyone gets him they had better ride him hard or risk losing him for nothing. If the Panthers could afford the games and didn’t have the Alien, Bishop would be worth getting. http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=860926

I think GMs will wait for July 1 since it’s unlikely he’ll see the time with the Blues.

by jimmyh71 on Feb 9, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

Goaltending wins championships. Can’t have enough of good goaltending.

by bearcat30 on Feb 9, 2012 12:08 PM EST reply actions

I was hoping, since LA is in town, that Tallon and Lombardi would pull off the goalie trade. Maybe after the game. Better yet, an hour before, and Bernier wins for us. Hell Yeah!!!

by bearcat30 on Feb 9, 2012 12:52 PM EST reply actions

Give LA Clemmensen and 1st rounder this year, and through in a stiff like Santorelli if they want him.

by bearcat30 on Feb 9, 2012 12:55 PM EST reply actions

Bernier wont be traded unless its for a top prospect and at least a roster player and/or pick

by Rob PKane McMahon on Feb 9, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

I love that idea!

Dara

by gravenger5 on Feb 9, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

The kings wont though, lol.

A lot of you (in general, not a direct statement) have these crazy fantasies about trading crap for teams top players/prospects. A first would pick, a backup goalie, and a bottom 6 forward wont get a great goalie

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

Out of hibernation (havent posted in forever) after the last few stinky games. but I just wanted to point out that I am VERY surprised at the reaction on here regarding Trades. People are asking for trades to Markstrom, Ellerby, Gudbranson, Weiss, etc (not on this thread, but others as well). Are we for real? 3 of the names above are pretty much the future of this franchise and one if the “captain”.

Frankly, I don’t care if we make the playoffs or not (let me explain), as long as the future isn’’t shipped. Whatever trades do occur, let them be of the UFA for picks variety and nothing else.

Sorry, this is just my opinion, but yea. Was simply shocked at the “trade the future & present for a 1st-2nd liner to make playoffs” mentality.

by Weezheat on Feb 9, 2012 1:11 PM EST reply actions

Double post deleted per your request. Welcome back :)

Litter Box Cats - Your tarp-free Florida Panthers Colossus

by Ryan Meier on Feb 9, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

The urge to trade has gone to peoples heads…mine too but at least I’m not trying to get rid of Marky

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions

+1

Marky may be our most valuable prospect. Arguably he is the most valuable when you consider the importance of a quality goaltender. Down in butterfly his taller 6’ 6" size is massive compared to those some of you want to swap. His teammates nicknamed him Alien because of his size and amazingly quick reflexes….
You just don’t mortgage the future by giving up too early on a prospect with such a great upside.

CFS93

by chesterbardo on Feb 9, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions

That is just crazy talk. Its really funny to me

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions

By no means should the Panthers trade away a 1st round pick this season….if all goes well then they should do it next season and make a huge playoff run.
That is not to say they should not make some minor trades and tweaks to increase the team’s chance of making it this year which we as fans are desperate for. It is still premature to sacrifice the future…one more 1st rounder this year and we’ll be good

by Nick Lepore on Feb 9, 2012 1:20 PM EST reply actions

Especially when we’re a bubble team, if we dont make the playoffs at least we can bring in another upper end prospect to the fold

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions

By all accounts, draft is rather shallow this year. Would we really miss out on something if we traded what will probably be a mid 1st round pick, especially with the plethora of picks we’ve stocked up on the last 2 drafts? If it means bringing in a roster player that can help the push in the last month? Who knows what Skille will be like when he’s back, Sturm can’t stay off the IR, Upshall is still up in the air… with Jovo and Kuli still out a while, a top 6 defender would certainly help. I’m all for giving Guds, Ellerby, and Stratchan their chance, but it hasn’t really gone so well since we lost those other two…

I certainly am not advocating a the nonsensical Markstrom, Huberdeau, Howden, Weiss, etc…. trades. But if the deal breaker is a 1st round pick, I wouldn’t miss it come June.

by kSelvig on Feb 9, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

I actually think that Strachan has played terrific for us…I wouldn’t mind him staying up with the team. I am all for trading ellerby! hopefully jovo will be back in 2 weeks and kuli not too far after. With Robak and a couple other guys in the ahl playing pretty well, our defensive core is pretty set for a while! I am concerned about our goaltending situation with our goalie of the future have too many problems with his knee at such a young age! Weiss should be a lifetime panther. I would be really offended as a fan and a VERY long time season seat owner if dale pulled the trigger on him. At least he has a no trade clause!

Dara

by gravenger5 on Feb 9, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

"I actually think that Strachan has played terrific for us"

He really has. I’m impressed

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions

Absolutely

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

i agree, trading a mid 1st round pick is not the worse that can happen if we get something strong in return. The draft this year is not considered very strong

by eliran2 on Feb 9, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions

drafts seems to get shallower every year. Maybe scouts got a little too excited with guys like Malkin, Crosby and Ovi years back and hold them as a standard instead of an anomaly

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

Guys like that don’t come along very often. The real measure of a draft isn’t is there a Crosby or a Lemiuex as much as are there a bunch of quality players. The 2003 draft was a better draft than 2005 even though the top three isn’t as impressive (M-A Fleury/Eric Staal/Horton vs. Crosby/Ryan/Jack Johnson). But all but 3 picks in the top round of 2003 have over 200 games in the NHL as opposed to only 14 for 2005. In the 2005 first round, for every Tuuka Rask there’s a Kenndall McArdle. In 2003, for every Steve Bernier there’s a Zach Parise and a Brent Seabrook. It’s insane.

Look at the late round picks in 2003: 5th: Lee Stempniak, Brad Richardson, 6th: Bruno Gervais, Nate Thompson, Drew Miller, 7th: Joe Pavelski, Kyle Brodziak, 8th: Tobias Enstrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Shane O’Brien, 9th: Matt Moulson, Tanner Glass, David Jones.

In 2005: 5th: Darren Helm, Nathan Gerbe, Tom Wandell, Mark Fayne, 6th: Tim Kennedy, Matt D’Agostini, 7th: Sergei Kostitsyn, Anton Stralman, Patric Hornqvist.

No offense to Sergei Kostitsyn, but Joe Pavelski in the seventh round is a steal.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions

My point? In a shallow draft, you need the first more than you do in a deep draft, because in a deep draft you get a lot more with your late round picks.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions

Well said. I cant believe those guys were drafted in 2003, seems like theyve been around forever. A quick decade

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions

That’s what I think as well. Trading away our 1st round pick this year isn’t such a bad idea if the return is decent. Look at it this way, if we trade a first round pick santo/matthias for Jeff Carter wouldn’t it be worth it? Columbus traded for carter for a 1st (albeit it top 5….but that was when his value was ALOT better) and a roster player. So essentially we’re trading a mid first round pick (Im assuming adding Carter to the line up will give us the finisher we need right now and we’ll be in the playoffs) for a proven 30 goal scorer

by Grav13 on Feb 9, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, because the Jackets are taking Shawn Matthias and Mike freaking Santorelli for Jeff Carter.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions

Voracek isn’t a roster player. He’s three seasons removed from being the 7th overall pick in the draft. He’s a second liner that can develop into a top line player. They drafted Sean Couturier 8th overall in the past draft, when he was considered the top pick for a long time. They didn’t get chump change for for Carter. You’re gonna look at trading Huberdeau plus a first to get Carter.

by MrOmnipotent on Feb 9, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly. Remember when we got Kulikov at pick 14? (I think).

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions

14th in 2009. Probably the best defenseman in that draft other than Hedman

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions

Was projected to go top five and teams got scared by his KHL contract. Thank you Randy Sexton!

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions

Goaltending isnt the problem people! As long as FLA sits at 21st in goals for/game (only 4 games with 3+ goals in 2012) unless we have Tim Thomas between the pipes we’ll still lose games.

We have a young star in Markstrom ready to take the reins, as long as he stays healthy. Its not worth trading him because we’re hysteric and think his career is ruined. His trade value is at an all time low right now anyways.

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 2:10 PM EST reply actions

The question would be is Schneider or Bernier on par or better than Markstrom?

by FL ELKs on Feb 9, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

how can you compare?
Quick 225GP
Schneider 55GP
Markstrom 8GP

CFS93

by chesterbardo on Feb 9, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions

No. Schneider has lots of goal support/defense and Bernier is a wildcard, just like Markstrom.

Even if they were, thats not the concern we need to address. Nor is making a trade a fool proof method to solve the problem

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions

Markstrom is not progressing as fast as we thought he would…….still looks Big and Shaky! But CSR is right…..Goaltending is NOT our problem…….We need players that SCORE goals on a fairly consistent basis. We lack the punch.FYI…..defensemen sometimes don’t reach their potential until their mid to late 20’s…..I hops Guds comes around earlier…….AND tonight……don’t put Bergie on the ice unless he has Barchie or Bradley on the ice with him!

by LAUSMAN on Feb 9, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions

8GP

Steve Diaz
Twitter - @sdiaz6215

by Sdiaz6215 on Feb 9, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

Well he hasnt had much playing time with the injuries…

by Colt1235 on Feb 9, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

His last couple of games yes, but before he was pretty confident for a 21yo rookie goaltender. He still hasnt been able to get that full AHL season in yet either. I hope we ease him back into SA, not Sunrise. Let Theo-Clemm have the rest of the season, as they should. Give Marky split time with Dov Grumit Morris and have the conditioning time he needs.

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

Which is exactly what will happen if Theo stays healthy. Otherwise, it’s the Clemmer & Alien show in a couple of weeks.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

Or worst case scenario, the fight to keep Brian Fosters sv% at 1.000

by Chris S Roberts on Feb 9, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions

But he is progressing as fast as the team thought he would. They never expected him to play here this year. That was an unrealistic fan expectation. If Clemmer hadn’t been injured, he never would have started the season here.

"Shut up, Pierre!" -Everyone

Litter Box Cats - Your Panthers Colossus.

by John Beatty on Feb 9, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions